1st test Multan

[miked]

Well a good day for Pak although those 3 late wkts gave england some
relief, but a flat pitch could mean another long day tomorrow in the
heat. They really should have scheduled the windies odi etc tour now and
Pakistan in december when the heat would have been less. Winning the
toss would have been helpful too. Carse had to do the bazball barrage
which on this pitch was def the short straw. England will have to v
disciplined when they bat, if the bat like at the oval, they could be
facing a heavy defeat.

mike

[John Hall]

Post by miked
Well a good day for Pak although those 3 late wkts gave england some
relief, but a flat pitch could mean another long day tomorrow in the
heat. They really should have scheduled the windies odi etc tour now and
Pakistan in december when the heat would have been less. Winning the
toss would have been helpful too. Carse had to do the bazball barrage
which on this pitch was def the short straw. England will have to v
disciplined when they bat, if the bat like at the oval, they could be
facing a heavy defeat.
mike

England came back well in the last session, and considering the heat
their bowlers did well to keep going. The pitch was very flat today, but
the worry for England is that it might turn increasingly as the match
progresses. Just as well England recalled Leach, as without his control
they would have really struggled.

[John Hall]

Post by John Hall

Post by miked
Well a good day for Pak although those 3 late wkts gave england some
relief, but a flat pitch could mean another long day tomorrow in the
heat. They really should have scheduled the windies odi etc tour now and
Pakistan in december when the heat would have been less. Winning the
toss would have been helpful too. Carse had to do the bazball barrage
which on this pitch was def the short straw. England will have to v
disciplined when they bat, if the bat like at the oval, they could be
facing a heavy defeat.
mike

England came back well in the last session, and considering the heat
their bowlers did well to keep going. The pitch was very flat today,
but the worry for England is that it might turn increasingly as the
match progresses. Just as well England recalled Leach, as without his
control they would have really struggled.

There was a disastrous (from an England POV) 30 minutes or so just after
tea on day 2, with Pakistan 9 wickets down. First Smith muffed the
easiest of stumpings and then Atkinson dropped a straightforward catch
in the outfield. I think you can probably put both mistakes down to
physical and mental exhaustion after five hard sessions in the field.
Those errors weren't costly in terms of runs, but if either chance had
been taken Duckett wouldn't have dislocated his thumb in taking the
catch that did finally end the innings. That would not only have been to
Duckett's benefit but also to Pope's, who as a makeshift opener was out
second ball to a brilliant catch. So not a good day for the Surrey
contingent!

After all that, Crawley and Root did well to not only survive till the
close but to rattle along at a good rate, especially considering how
tired they must have been. Apparently England are hopeful that Duckett
will be able to bat tomorrow; we are certainly likely to need him.

I think after these two days England might regard Leach as their number
one spinner once more.

[miked]

Post by John Hall

Post by John Hall

Post by miked
Well a good day for Pak although those 3 late wkts gave england some
relief, but a flat pitch could mean another long day tomorrow in the
heat. They really should have scheduled the windies odi etc tour now and
Pakistan in december when the heat would have been less. Winning the
toss would have been helpful too. Carse had to do the bazball barrage
which on this pitch was def the short straw. England will have to v
disciplined when they bat, if the bat like at the oval, they could be
facing a heavy defeat.
mike

England came back well in the last session, and considering the heat
their bowlers did well to keep going. The pitch was very flat today,
but the worry for England is that it might turn increasingly as the
match progresses. Just as well England recalled Leach, as without his
control they would have really struggled.

There was a disastrous (from an England POV) 30 minutes or so just after
tea on day 2, with Pakistan 9 wickets down. First Smith muffed the
easiest of stumpings and then Atkinson dropped a straightforward catch
in the outfield. I think you can probably put both mistakes down to
physical and mental exhaustion after five hard sessions in the field.
Those errors weren't costly in terms of runs, but if either chance had
been taken Duckett wouldn't have dislocated his thumb in taking the
catch that did finally end the innings. That would not only have been to
Duckett's benefit but also to Pope's, who as a makeshift opener was out
second ball to a brilliant catch. So not a good day for the Surrey
contingent!

when carse got jamal, if england had finished pak off for about 480, it
would have been a good effort but that partnership between agha and
shaheen really killed engalnd. They need some big inningses just to get
near to Pak. They need to boycott the crease and be determined to bat
all 1 session and then the next and so, cut out all the risky shots,
unfortunately thats the antithesis of bazball where certainly this
summer especially at the oval they gift wickets when they are on top.

Post by John Hall
After all that, Crawley and Root did well to not only survive till the
close but to rattle along at a good rate, especially considering how
tired they must have been. Apparently England are hopeful that Duckett
will be able to bat tomorrow; we are certainly likely to need him.
I think after these two days England might regard Leach as their number
one spinner once more.

yep pak really targetted Bash and he looked like he was bowling in the
CC this summer [av 86], rather than the tests [av 35]. Strangely he
looked rather nervous i thought yesterday.

mike

[John Hall]

Post by miked

Post by John Hall

Post by John Hall

Post by miked
Well a good day for Pak although those 3 late wkts gave england some
relief, but a flat pitch could mean another long day tomorrow in the
heat. They really should have scheduled the windies odi etc tour now and
Pakistan in december when the heat would have been less. Winning the
toss would have been helpful too. Carse had to do the bazball barrage
which on this pitch was def the short straw. England will have to v
disciplined when they bat, if the bat like at the oval, they could be
facing a heavy defeat.
mike

England came back well in the last session, and considering the heat
their bowlers did well to keep going. The pitch was very flat today,
but the worry for England is that it might turn increasingly as the
match progresses. Just as well England recalled Leach, as without his
control they would have really struggled.

There was a disastrous (from an England POV) 30 minutes or so just after
tea on day 2, with Pakistan 9 wickets down. First Smith muffed the
easiest of stumpings and then Atkinson dropped a straightforward catch
in the outfield. I think you can probably put both mistakes down to
physical and mental exhaustion after five hard sessions in the field.
Those errors weren't costly in terms of runs, but if either chance had
been taken Duckett wouldn't have dislocated his thumb in taking the
catch that did finally end the innings. That would not only have been to
Duckett's benefit but also to Pope's, who as a makeshift opener was out
second ball to a brilliant catch. So not a good day for the Surrey
contingent!

when carse got jamal, if england had finished pak off for about 480, it
would have been a good effort but that partnership between agha and
shaheen really killed engalnd. They need some big inningses just to get
near to Pak.

Well they certainly got some!

Post by miked
They need to boycott the crease and be determined to bat
all 1 session and then the next and so, cut out all the risky shots,
unfortunately thats the antithesis of bazball where certainly this
summer especially at the oval they gift wickets when they are on top.

In the event they were able to score at only a fraction under 5 rpo
without taking any undue risks. Naseem with the second new ball was
quite threatening, but otherwise there were few alarms. Now they'll be
hoping to get to at least 700 by tea-time tomorrow, with the aim of
putting Pakistan under pressure in their second innings, where
apparently they've been prone to collapse recently.

Post by miked

Post by John Hall
After all that, Crawley and Root did well to not only survive till the
close but to rattle along at a good rate, especially considering how
tired they must have been. Apparently England are hopeful that Duckett
will be able to bat tomorrow; we are certainly likely to need him.
I think after these two days England might regard Leach as their number
one spinner once more.

yep pak really targetted Bash and he looked like he was bowling in the
CC this summer [av 86], rather than the tests [av 35]. Strangely he
looked rather nervous i thought yesterday.
mike

Perhaps with Leach also being in the side, he was nervous about the
comparisons that people were inevitably going to make.

[miked]

Post by John Hall

Post by miked
when carse got jamal, if england had finished pak off for about 480, it
would have been a good effort but that partnership between agha and
shaheen really killed engalnd. They need some big inningses just to get
near to Pak.

Well they certainly got some!

lets hope they go on and on. I dunno how Duckett managed to bat like
that after doing his thumb previous evening. I wouldnt wanna do anything
for days. I guess the wkt looked so flat he didnt wanna miss out.

Post by John Hall

Post by miked
They need to boycott the crease and be determined to bat
all 1 session and then the next and so, cut out all the risky shots,
unfortunately thats the antithesis of bazball where certainly this
summer especially at the oval they gift wickets when they are on top.

In the event they were able to score at only a fraction under 5 rpo
without taking any undue risks. Naseem with the second new ball was
quite threatening, but otherwise there were few alarms. Now they'll be
hoping to get to at least 700 by tea-time tomorrow, with the aim of
putting Pakistan under pressure in their second innings, where
apparently they've been prone to collapse recently.

yes although this summer when they tried to score v quickly they ended
up losing wkts rapidly and scoring rate not much more than before, plus
theres a sign of some uneven bounce perhaps. Naseem was unlucky with
Root on umpires call, but otherwise the real danger was that both he and
brook might do themselves an injury walking back up those steps at the
end. I bet its pretty rare since bazball that an england batter bats
through an entire full day, and i expect the last 1 was root. Prob
crawley did it too with his 267 but that was pre bazball.

Post by John Hall

Post by miked
yep pak really targetted Bash and he looked like he was bowling in the
CC this summer [av 86], rather than the tests [av 35]. Strangely he
looked rather nervous i thought yesterday.
mike

Perhaps with Leach also being in the side, he was nervous about the
comparisons that people were inevitably going to make.

tms saltyman raced through some stats at the end, and maybe i didnt
really get this 1 right; Abrar apparently bowled most overs without a
maiden since [of all people] Warne in 2005 [i assume he was just talking
about vs england], which must have been a very bad day for warne. I dont
think there was a maiden over in the whole day.

mike

[David North]

Post by miked
I bet its pretty rare since bazball that an england batter bats
through an entire full day, and i expect the last 1 was root. Prob
crawley did it too with his 267 but that was pre bazball.

I think the last was Root v India at Lord's in 2021.

[miked]

Post by David North

Post by miked
I bet its pretty rare since bazball that an england batter bats
through an entire full day, and i expect the last 1 was root. Prob
crawley did it too with his 267 but that was pre bazball.

I think the last was Root v India at Lord's in 2021.

i'm guessing brook has the most runs by a touring batter in pakistan
unless its gavaskar. Brook av 111 in away tests, 38 in the UK, that must
be the biggest diff of any top 6 england batter.

mike

[David North]

Post by miked

Post by David North

Post by miked
I bet its pretty rare since bazball that an england batter bats
through an entire full day, and i expect the last 1 was root. Prob
crawley did it too with his 267 but that was pre bazball.

I think the last was Root v India at Lord's in 2021.

i'm guessing brook has the most runs by a touring batter in pakistan
unless its gavaskar.

Brook's 317 is the 2nd-highest by a touring batter (and the 3rd-highest
by anyone) in Pakistan, behind Mark Taylor's 334* at Peshawar in
1998/99. It's the highest score at Multan, beating Virender Sehwag's 309
in 2003/04.

Brook av 111 in away tests, 38 in the UK, that must

Post by miked
be the biggest diff of any top 6 england batter.

Well Colin Milburn made 139 in his only overseas innings (Karachi
1968/69), and Harry Wood averaged 98 in his 3 overseas innings and made
8 in his only innings in England, but no other England player who has
played more than 6 overseas Test innings has averaged more than 70 full
stop, let alone 70 more than their average in England.

[miked]

Post by David North

Post by miked

Post by David North

Post by miked
I bet its pretty rare since bazball that an england batter bats
through an entire full day, and i expect the last 1 was root. Prob
crawley did it too with his 267 but that was pre bazball.

I think the last was Root v India at Lord's in 2021.

i'm guessing brook has the most runs by a touring batter in pakistan
unless its gavaskar.

Brook's 317 is the 2nd-highest by a touring batter (and the 3rd-highest
by anyone) in Pakistan, behind Mark Taylor's 334* at Peshawar in
1998/99. It's the highest score at Multan, beating Virender Sehwag's 309
in 2003/04.
Brook av 111 in away tests, 38 in the UK, that must

Post by miked
be the biggest diff of any top 6 england batter.

Well Colin Milburn made 139 in his only overseas innings (Karachi
1968/69), and Harry Wood averaged 98 in his 3 overseas innings and made
8 in his only innings in England, but no other England player who has
played more than 6 overseas Test innings has averaged more than 70 full
stop, let alone 70 more than their average in England.

its pretty crazy really.

and so ends a remarkable win in remarkable heat played out in front of
empty stands. thats the obvious q they didnt ask pope et al, what was it
like to break all these records and win in an empty stadium? And while
they wernt doing that i was wondering which strip of baked mud on the
square they were gonna use on tuesday. will it be a taunton special,
jack would love that.

mike

[miked]

Post by miked

Post by miked
Brook av 111 in away tests, 38 in the UK, that must

Post by miked
be the biggest diff of any top 6 england batter.

Well Colin Milburn made 139 in his only overseas innings (Karachi
1968/69), and Harry Wood averaged 98 in his 3 overseas innings and made
8 in his only innings in England, but no other England player who has
played more than 6 overseas Test innings has averaged more than 70 full
stop, let alone 70 more than their average in England.

its pretty crazy really.
and so ends a remarkable win in remarkable heat played out in front of
empty stands. thats the obvious q they didnt ask pope et al, what was it
like to break all these records and win in an empty stadium? And while
they wernt doing that i was wondering which strip of baked mud on the
square they were gonna use on tuesday. will it be a taunton special,
jack would love that.
mike

another stat, maybe true, that every time a team has scored 556 this
millenium, that team has lost, this match, bangles vs SL, and some other
in 2003?

mike

[David North]

Post by miked
another stat, maybe true, that every time a team has scored 556 this
millenium, that team has lost, this match, bangles vs SL, and some other
in 2003?

The Bangladesh match was v WI, and the 2003 match was when India won at
Adelaide. It's only when they have been bowled out for 556 that they
have lost, as there have been 4 instances of teams declaring at 556 and
either winning or drawing. The only time a side was all out for 556
before the turn of the millenium was when WI beat England by an innings
at Georgetown in 1993/94.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=team_score;qualmax1=556;qualmin1=556;qualval1=team_score;template=results;type=team;view=innings

[John Hall]

Post by miked
and so ends a remarkable win in remarkable heat played out in front of
empty stands. thats the obvious q they didnt ask pope et al, what was it
like to break all these records and win in an empty stadium?

I thought the crowd was actually pretty decent, though the crowd shots
on TV no doubt concentrated on the fuller portions of the stands. Of
course the extreme heat, and Pakistan's recent dreadful form, won't have
encouraged people to come.

Post by miked
And while
they wernt doing that i was wondering which strip of baked mud on the
square they were gonna use on tuesday. will it be a taunton special,
jack would love that.

One would imagine that Pakistan being one down would prefer a pitch with
more help for the bowlers, but providing that at Multan could be tough.
It's been suggested that they could try using the same strip as for the
first Tests, since a6t least it would have had some wear. Given that the
player supposed to be Pakistan's best spinner was dismantled by England
and now has dengue fever, they may be more inclined to try to produce a
pitch with more in it for the pace bowlers.

Smith will be relieved to have at last brought off his first stumping
for England, having missed one in the summer by not knowing the law that
the keeper can't take the ball in front of the stumps (unless it's hit
the batsman or bat first, I believe) and then missed an easy chance in
the first innings here by failing to take the ball.

[Andy Walker]

[...] It's been suggested that they could try using the same> strip as for the first Tests, since a6t least it would have had some
wear.

Absent a matting/concrete wicket, or some emergency, I would have
expected the umpires or other authorities to rule that out. England are
surely entitled to play on a fresh strip? But anyway, ...

Given that the player supposed to be Pakistan's best spinner
was dismantled by England and now has dengue fever, they may be more
inclined to try to produce a pitch with more in it for the pace
bowlers.

... BBC Sport has a web page showing what is apparently the
intended strip, a couple of yards away from the recent one, and under
preparation, together with some commentary on what that entails:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/c77x5r54p5no

Smith will be relieved to have at last brought off his first
stumping for England, having missed one in the summer by not knowing
the law that the keeper can't take the ball in front of the stumps
[...].

Hmm. I hope you were jesting, as that's a pretty basic aspect
of being a WK at school/club level, let alone international!

[James Heaton]

[...] It's been suggested that they could try using the same> strip as
for the first Tests, since a6t least it would have had some
wear.

    Absent a matting/concrete wicket, or some emergency, I would have
expected the umpires or other authorities to rule that out.  England are
surely entitled to play on a fresh strip?  But anyway, ...

       Given that the player supposed to be Pakistan's best spinner
was dismantled by England and now has dengue fever, they may be more
inclined to try to produce a pitch with more in it for the pace
bowlers.

    ... BBC Sport has a web page showing what is apparently the
intended strip, a couple of yards away from the recent one, and under
  https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/c77x5r54p5no

Smith will be relieved to have at last brought off his first
stumping for England, having missed one in the summer by not knowing
the law that the keeper can't take the ball in front of the stumps
[...].

    Hmm.  I hope you were jesting, as that's a pretty basic aspect
of being a WK at school/club level, let alone international!

I don't think he is jesting... think I saw something similar about the
incident

Smith has been very clear he sees himself as a batsman with keeping very
much his 2nd string.

James

[John Hall]

In message <vedlhl$3ja5$***@dont-email.me>, Andy Walker <***@cuboid.co.uk>
writes

Post by Andy Walker

[...] It's been suggested that they could try using the same> strip
as for the first Tests, since a6t least it would have had some
wear.

<snip>

Post by Andy Walker

Smith will be relieved to have at last brought off his first
stumping for England, having missed one in the summer by not knowing
the law that the keeper can't take the ball in front of the stumps
[...].

Hmm. I hope you were jesting, as that's a pretty basic aspect
of being a WK at school/club level, let alone international!

No, I was perfectly serious. Smith admitted that he hadn't known the
law. That may be because I think in the past he'd played more often as a
specialist batsman than as a keeper.

[Andy Walker]

Post by John Hall
Smith will be relieved to have at last brought off his first
stumping for England, having missed one in the summer by not knowing
the law that the keeper can't take the ball in front of the stumps
[...].

      Hmm.  I hope you were jesting, as that's a pretty basic aspect
of being a WK at school/club level, let alone international!

No, I was perfectly serious. Smith admitted that he hadn't known the law.
That may be because I think in the past he'd played more often as a
specialist batsman than as a keeper.

In that case, I hope Smith was jesting! Knowing when you can
safely leave your crease is a pretty basic aspect of batting as well as
keeping, and even a part-time WK should know when to wait for the ball
to pass the wicket.

[David North]

Post by John Hall
Smith will be relieved to have at last brought off his first
stumping for England, having missed one in the summer by not knowing
the law that the keeper can't take the ball in front of the stumps
[...].

      Hmm.  I hope you were jesting, as that's a pretty basic aspect
of being a WK at school/club level, let alone international!

No, I was perfectly serious. Smith admitted that he hadn't known the law.
That may be because I think in the past he'd played more often as a
specialist batsman than as a keeper.

    In that case, I hope Smith was jesting!  Knowing when you can
safely leave your crease is a pretty basic aspect of batting as well as
keeping, and even a part-time WK should know when to wait for the ball
to pass the wicket.

According to Cricinfo: 'Smith admitted he was not totally up to speed
with the nature of his indiscretion. "I'll know the law moving forward,"
he said with a smirk.'

He was called during a DRS review for lbw, btw; it wasn't a stumping
attempt, although he did miss a stumping in the same match.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/eng-vs-sl-1st-test-jamie-smith-quells-the-keeper-s-debate-as-world-class-credentials-shine-through-1448544

[David North]

Post by miked
Well a good day for Pak although those 3 late wkts gave england some
relief, but a flat pitch could mean another long day tomorrow in the
heat. They really should have scheduled the windies odi etc tour now and
Pakistan in december when the heat would have been less.

The trouble with playing in Pakistan in December is that they would
routinely lose time to bad light at the end of the day, especially as
far north as Multan and Rawalpindi.

Also, WI are about to start a white-ball tour of SL, and Pakistan will
be touring Zimbabwe and SA from late November to early January.