England vs NZ

[miked]

The usual silly beer match before the test series saw England dismiss
the kiwi welcome XI for 136, then did they use the rest of the day for
batting practice, no just the usual bazball jolly 249 all out off 45
overs, with cox making only 11.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-in-new-zealand-2024-25-1428550/new-zealand-prime-minister-s-xi-vs-england-practice-match-1461163/full-scorecard

mike

[miked]

Post by miked
The usual silly beer match before the test series saw England dismiss
the kiwi welcome XI for 136, then did they use the rest of the day for
batting practice, no just the usual bazball jolly 249 all out off 45
overs, with cox making only 11.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-in-new-zealand-2024-25-1428550/new-zealand-prime-minister-s-xi-vs-england-practice-match-1461163/full-scorecard
mike

Cox out with a broken thumb, so Pope will probably keep again, might be
a blessing in disguise, although i'm worried about his shoulder frailty
plus if NZ bat first and he has to keep for a long time, it might be
best if he drops down the order, not that england usually show any
flexibilty in such matters.

England must be v dissapointed to draw a match for once, set 201 to win,
they went off in the usual way, 40-4 after 6 overs, when stokes and Root
were together they looked like pulling off an unlikely t20 style win,
but then collapsed, finished 5 short on 196-9. Dunno what they gained by
batting like that, but that seems their approach nowadays, so i expect
NZ to find it pretty easy to take wkts in the test.

Becos of Cox injury, Bethel is expected to debut. It seems that batters
who can hit 6s are preferred to those who can bat all day. I notice that
both Bash and Leach got bashed by the PM players, mainly 2nd XI strength
and U19 hopefuls.

mike

[John Hall]

Post by miked

Post by miked
The usual silly beer match before the test series saw England dismiss
the kiwi welcome XI for 136, then did they use the rest of the day for
batting practice, no just the usual bazball jolly 249 all out off 45
overs, with cox making only 11.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-in-new-zealand-2024-25-1428
550/new-zealand-prime-minister-s-xi-vs-england-practice-match-1461163/f
ull-scorecard
mike

Cox out with a broken thumb,

Rotten luck for him.

Post by miked
so Pope will probably keep again,

Yes, though I understand England are thinking of flying out another
keeper in time for Tests 2 and 3

Post by miked
might be
a blessing in disguise, although i'm worried about his shoulder frailty

I believe the operations he's had on both shoulders are supposed to have
permanently cured the problem.

Post by miked
plus if NZ bat first and he has to keep for a long time, it might be
best if he drops down the order, not that england usually show any
flexibilty in such matters.

I'd have thought they would have to in this instance. In my paper this
morning it's suggested that Root or Stokes might bat at 3.

Post by miked
England must be v dissapointed to draw a match for once, set 201 to win,
they went off in the usual way, 40-4 after 6 overs, when stokes and Root
were together they looked like pulling off an unlikely t20 style win,
but then collapsed, finished 5 short on 196-9. Dunno what they gained by
batting like that, but that seems their approach nowadays, so i expect
NZ to find it pretty easy to take wkts in the test.

For some reason, although the BBC website showed the first day's
scorecard, the match doesn't appear there today, so I hadn't seen the
score. I read that they have one more warm-up match.

Post by miked
Becos of Cox injury, Bethel is expected to debut. It seems that batters
who can hit 6s are preferred to those who can bat all day. I notice that
both Bash and Leach got bashed by the PM players, mainly 2nd XI strength
and U19 hopefuls.
mike

A little surprising that Leach was. I'm wondering if the ground was on
the small side.

[miked]

Post by John Hall

Post by miked

Post by miked
The usual silly beer match before the test series saw England dismiss
the kiwi welcome XI for 136, then did they use the rest of the day for
batting practice, no just the usual bazball jolly 249 all out off 45
overs, with cox making only 11.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-in-new-zealand-2024-25-1428
550/new-zealand-prime-minister-s-xi-vs-england-practice-match-1461163/f
ull-scorecard
mike

Cox out with a broken thumb,

Rotten luck for him.

Post by miked
so Pope will probably keep again,

Yes, though I understand England are thinking of flying out another
keeper in time for Tests 2 and 3

Post by miked
might be
a blessing in disguise, although i'm worried about his shoulder frailty

I believe the operations he's had on both shoulders are supposed to have
permanently cured the problem.

Post by miked
plus if NZ bat first and he has to keep for a long time, it might be
best if he drops down the order, not that england usually show any
flexibilty in such matters.

I'd have thought they would have to in this instance. In my paper this
morning it's suggested that Root or Stokes might bat at 3.

Post by miked
England must be v dissapointed to draw a match for once, set 201 to win,
they went off in the usual way, 40-4 after 6 overs, when stokes and Root
were together they looked like pulling off an unlikely t20 style win,
but then collapsed, finished 5 short on 196-9. Dunno what they gained by
batting like that, but that seems their approach nowadays, so i expect
NZ to find it pretty easy to take wkts in the test.

For some reason, although the BBC website showed the first day's
scorecard, the match doesn't appear there today, so I hadn't seen the
score. I read that they have one more warm-up match.

really? i thought the test began on Wednesday nite our time 22pm. theyll
gonna be a bit knackered if they play Monday or tuesday as well. The
media seem to assume the replacement will be durham robinson, but i dont
see any quote from england even to confirm pope for CHch, although i
cant see they can choose anyone else in the time available, unless Phil
Salt is hiding somewhere. Apparently they were so short of players that
anderson had to sub in for someone. Start of a comeback i hope. I wonder
if Stokes has confirmed whether he'll be bowling this time? I'm assuming
the other bowlers will woakes, carse atkinson and leach.

mike

[John Hall]

Post by miked

Post by John Hall

Post by miked

Post by miked
The usual silly beer match before the test series saw England dismiss
the kiwi welcome XI for 136, then did they use the rest of the day for
batting practice, no just the usual bazball jolly 249 all out off 45
overs, with cox making only 11.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-in-new-zealand-2024-25-1428
550/new-zealand-prime-minister-s-xi-vs-england-practice-match-1461163/f
ull-scorecard
mike

Cox out with a broken thumb,

Rotten luck for him.

Post by miked
so Pope will probably keep again,

Yes, though I understand England are thinking of flying out another
keeper in time for Tests 2 and 3

Post by miked
might be
a blessing in disguise, although i'm worried about his shoulder frailty

I believe the operations he's had on both shoulders are supposed to have
permanently cured the problem.

Post by miked
plus if NZ bat first and he has to keep for a long time, it might be
best if he drops down the order, not that england usually show any
flexibilty in such matters.

I'd have thought they would have to in this instance. In my paper this
morning it's suggested that Root or Stokes might bat at 3.

Post by miked
England must be v dissapointed to draw a match for once, set 201 to win,
they went off in the usual way, 40-4 after 6 overs, when stokes and Root
were together they looked like pulling off an unlikely t20 style win,
but then collapsed, finished 5 short on 196-9. Dunno what they gained by
batting like that, but that seems their approach nowadays, so i expect
NZ to find it pretty easy to take wkts in the test.

For some reason, although the BBC website showed the first day's
scorecard, the match doesn't appear there today, so I hadn't seen the
score. I read that they have one more warm-up match.

really? i thought the test began on Wednesday nite our time 22pm.

I thought it was Thursday night, but I could easily be wrong.

Post by miked
theyll
gonna be a bit knackered if they play Monday or tuesday as well. The
media seem to assume the replacement will be durham robinson, but i dont
see any quote from england even to confirm pope for CHch, although i
cant see they can choose anyone else in the time available, unless Phil
Salt is hiding somewhere. Apparently they were so short of players that
anderson had to sub in for someone. Start of a comeback i hope. I wonder
if Stokes has confirmed whether he'll be bowling this time? I'm assuming
the other bowlers will woakes, carse atkinson and leach.
mike

That seems likely, assuming Stokes can bowl a decent number of overs.

[John Hall]

<snip>

Post by John Hall

Post by miked
really? i thought the test began on Wednesday nite our time 22pm.

I thought it was Thursday night, but I could easily be wrong.

And I /was/ wrong, not for the first time!

[miked]

Post by John Hall
<snip>

Post by John Hall

Post by miked
really? i thought the test began on Wednesday nite our time 22pm.

I thought it was Thursday night, but I could easily be wrong.

And I /was/ wrong, not for the first time!

so was i, should be 22.00 or 10pm. Also bash will play, although as i'm
not sure stokes will bowl [he didnt in the warmup] i'd prefer another
quick, like stone. I think NZ will play 4 seamers and rely on Philips
for spin option. For england Bethel will bat at 3! Hes had an
extraordinary rise. I cant imagine that many england no3 [aside from
nitehawks and the like] have been chosen without having made a FC 100.
Pope will bat at 6.

Zak Crawley, Ben Duckett, Jacob Bethell, Joe Root, Harry Brook, Ollie
Pope (wicketkeeper), Ben Stokes (captain), Chris Woakes, Gus Atkinson,
Brydon Carse, Shoaib Bashir.

I believe england have only ever played 1 match at christchurch, but
most matches there have been won by the side bowling first, which seems
unusual.

mike

[miked]

Post by miked
for spin option. For england Bethel will bat at 3! Hes had an
extraordinary rise. I cant imagine that many england no3 [aside from
nitehawks and the like] have been chosen without having made a FC 100.

did try looking this up, but i think Geoff Miller batted at 3 against NZ
in 1978, although he might have been a nitewatcher, but i dont think he
had made a FC 100 by then?


mike

[David North]

Post by miked

Post by miked
for spin option. For england Bethel will bat at 3! Hes had an
extraordinary rise. I cant imagine that many england no3 [aside from
nitehawks and the like] have been chosen without having made a FC 100.

did try looking this up, but i think Geoff Miller batted at 3 against NZ
in 1978, although he might have been a nitewatcher,

Clearly not from the scorecard.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-new-zealand-1977-78-61774/new-zealand-vs-england-1st-test-63203/full-scorecard

Post by miked
but i dont think he
had made a FC 100 by then?

Indeed he hadn't - his CI profile says that his maiden FC 100 took 380
innings and was after both of his Test 98s, the 2nd of which was in
1982. The 1st, which was not out, was 2 months before the NZ tour though
(in Lahore). He batted over 6 hours, so well worth a century.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-pakistan-1977-78-61763/pakistan-vs-england-1st-test-63200/full-scorecard

[John Hall]

Post by miked

Post by John Hall
<snip>

Post by John Hall

Post by miked
really? i thought the test began on Wednesday nite our time 22pm.

I thought it was Thursday night, but I could easily be wrong.

And I /was/ wrong, not for the first time!

so was i, should be 22.00 or 10pm. Also bash will play, although as i'm
not sure stokes will bowl [he didnt in the warmup] i'd prefer another
quick, like stone. I think NZ will play 4 seamers and rely on Philips
for spin option. For england Bethel will bat at 3! Hes had an
extraordinary rise. I cant imagine that many england no3 [aside from
nitehawks and the like] have been chosen without having made a FC 100.
Pope will bat at 6.
Zak Crawley, Ben Duckett, Jacob Bethell, Joe Root, Harry Brook, Ollie
Pope (wicketkeeper), Ben Stokes (captain), Chris Woakes, Gus Atkinson,
Brydon Carse, Shoaib Bashir.

I can't help feeling very nervous about Bethell at 3.

Post by miked
I believe england have only ever played 1 match at christchurch, but
most matches there have been won by the side bowling first, which seems
unusual.
mike

If it's right that England have only played one game there, that's very
surprising. Unless NZ used to use a different Christchurch ground and
have only switched comparatively recently?

[dnorth]

Post by John Hall

Post by miked
I believe england have only ever played 1 match at christchurch, but
most matches there have been won by the side bowling first, which seems
unusual.
mike

If it's right that England have only played one game there, that's very
surprising. Unless NZ used to use a different Christchurch ground and
have only switched comparatively recently?

That is what happened. The first Test at Hagley Oval was in 2014; the
last at Lancaster Park/Jade Stadium/AMI Stadium was in 2006. England
played 15 Tests there, the last 3 being memorable: Tufnell's 7/47 to win
in 1991/92, when 4 runs would have saved the match; England making 307/6
to win in 1996/97; and the 200s by Thorpe and Astle in 2001/02.

[miked]

Post by dnorth

Post by John Hall

Post by miked
I believe england have only ever played 1 match at christchurch, but
most matches there have been won by the side bowling first, which seems
unusual.
mike

If it's right that England have only played one game there, that's very
surprising. Unless NZ used to use a different Christchurch ground and
have only switched comparatively recently?

That is what happened. The first Test at Hagley Oval was in 2014; the
last at Lancaster Park/Jade Stadium/AMI Stadium was in 2006. England
played 15 Tests there, the last 3 being memorable: Tufnell's 7/47 to win
in 1991/92, when 4 runs would have saved the match; England making 307/6
to win in 1996/97; and the 200s by Thorpe and Astle in 2001/02.

Yes i should have said Hagley not ChCH. Looking at the forcast and what
usually happens at Hagley i suggest they ditch Bash and recall Anderson.
AIUI spinners dont really figure much at Hagley, especially springtime,
and seeing how expensive he was at Queenstown.

If england bat first i fear this match could be another heavy defeat.

BTW cricinfo say Mike Gatting was englands last no3 _on debut_ without a
FC 100, although when i looked, he batted at 5.

mike

[dnorth]

Post by miked
BTW cricinfo say Mike Gatting was englands last no3 _on debut_ without a
FC 100, although when i looked, he batted at 5.

Yes he did.

I take it that they are not including nightwatchmen, as Neil Williams
batted at #3 in his only Test innings, and never made a FC 100.

Not many debutants bat at #3 - only 4 for England in the last 30 years,
including one nightwatchman, Rehan Ahmed (he had made a FC 100 already).

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax1=3;batting_positionmin1=3;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;debut_or_last=1;filter=advanced;orderby=start;orderbyad=reverse;size=200;team=1;template=results;type=batting;view=match

[John Hall]

Post by dnorth

Post by miked
BTW cricinfo say Mike Gatting was englands last no3 _on debut_ without a
FC 100, although when i looked, he batted at 5.

Yes he did.
I take it that they are not including nightwatchmen, as Neil Williams
batted at #3 in his only Test innings, and never made a FC 100.
Not many debutants bat at #3 - only 4 for England in the last 30 years,
including one nightwatchman, Rehan Ahmed (he had made a FC 100 already).
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positi
onmax1=3;batting_positionmin1=3;batting_positionval1=batting_position;cl
ass=1;debut_or_last=1;filter=advanced;orderby=start;orderbyad=reverse;si
ze=200;team=1;template=results;type=batting;view=match

I see that Neil Williams actually did better than most. Only two England
batsmen making their debut at three seem to have scored a century in
their debut match: Peter May (no surprise) and that great character
George Gunn, who should perhaps have been selected for England more
often. ISTR that he never played in a home Test.

[miked]

As i expected NZ have gone for 4 seamers, although they do have Philips
and ravindra who can bowl a bit of spin, also mitchell can bowl
something.

Latham, Conway, Williamson, ravindra, mitchell, blundell, philips,
nathan smith [played for worcs last season], southee, henry [who took
7-23 at hagley a while back] & will o'rorke [b in london] whos v tall
and had a spectacular debut against RSA last Feb.

England have won the toss and will bowl. I should be relieved, but a
snoozer friend told me that its a heatwave on the first day which may
dry the pitch out and make it a batting paradise.

mike

[miked]

Post by miked
As i expected NZ have gone for 4 seamers, although they do have Philips
and ravindra who can bowl a bit of spin, also mitchell can bowl
something.
Latham, Conway, Williamson, ravindra, mitchell, blundell, philips,
nathan smith [played for worcs last season], southee, henry [who took
7-23 at hagley a while back] & will o'rorke [b in london] whos v tall
and had a spectacular debut against RSA last Feb.
England have won the toss and will bowl. I should be relieved, but a
snoozer friend told me that its a heatwave on the first day which may
dry the pitch out and make it a batting paradise.
mike

Its lathams fav ground and hes doing well so far, but ground is a
misnomer this is a field with some seating but mainly grassy banks. wish
anderson was playing.

bbc reports that the reason durham robinson couldnt get out sooner to
replace cox, was his passport had expired! I spose after they chose cox
and also pepper ahead of him, he thought he'd be staying at home all
winter.

mike

[John Hall]

Post by miked

Post by miked
As i expected NZ have gone for 4 seamers, although they do have Philips
and ravindra who can bowl a bit of spin, also mitchell can bowl
something.
Latham, Conway, Williamson, ravindra, mitchell, blundell, philips,
nathan smith [played for worcs last season], southee, henry [who took
7-23 at hagley a while back] & will o'rorke [b in london] whos v tall
and had a spectacular debut against RSA last Feb.
England have won the toss and will bowl. I should be relieved, but a
snoozer friend told me that its a heatwave on the first day which may
dry the pitch out and make it a batting paradise.
mike

Its lathams fav ground and hes doing well so far, but ground is a
misnomer this is a field with some seating but mainly grassy banks. wish
anderson was playing.
bbc reports that the reason durham robinson couldnt get out sooner to
replace cox, was his passport had expired! I spose after they chose cox
and also pepper ahead of him, he thought he'd be staying at home all
winter.
mike

It's unusual for a modern successful cricketer not to have something
lined up overseas for the winter, whether white-ball or red. And you'd
have thought that England would have warned him in advance that, in the
event of an injury to Cox, he might be required. I think the last three
England Test keepers have all been from Surrey: Foakes, Smith and Pope.

I'm fairly happy with how day 1 went. Apparently it's a slow pitch with
no demons, but it may become even more friendly for batting as the game
goes on. Glad to see that Stokes could bowl his full share of the overs,
even though he seems to have unsurprisingly been a bit rusty. Just as
well that Bashir played! Atkinson kept up his record of almost always
picking up at least two wickets in an innings, the only exception being
the 3rd Test v SL when he was handicapped by picking up an injury.

[miked]

Post by John Hall
I'm fairly happy with how day 1 went. Apparently it's a slow pitch with
no demons, but it may become even more friendly for batting as the game
goes on. Glad to see that Stokes could bowl his full share of the overs,
even though he seems to have unsurprisingly been a bit rusty. Just as
well that Bashir played! Atkinson kept up his record of almost always
picking up at least two wickets in an innings, the only exception being
the 3rd Test v SL when he was handicapped by picking up an injury.

yes bash clearly enjoyed pointing this out to the naysayers when he was
interviewed at the end. Stokes missed out on a wkt when they didnt
appeal just b4 lunch for an edge off ravindra. woakes wasnt at his best,
bowled some great balls but also some loose stuff which let the pressure
off the batters. At 252-7 they had done well to work their way back into
it when kane seemed set for a very big score, but as usual we do
struggle to run through the tail, and philips and the rest could easily
push the total beyond 400. Forcast was wrong in that it seemed sunny for
most of the day certainly after lunch, gonna be much cooler and cloudier
tomorrow, see if that is anymore accurate.

mike

[David North]

Post by John Hall

Post by dnorth

Post by miked
BTW cricinfo say Mike Gatting was englands last no3 _on debut_ without a
FC 100, although when i looked, he batted at 5.

Yes he did.
I take it that they are not including nightwatchmen, as Neil Williams
batted at #3 in his only Test innings, and never made a FC 100.
Not many debutants bat at #3 - only 4 for England in the last 30 years,
including one nightwatchman, Rehan Ahmed (he had made a FC 100 already).
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positi
onmax1=3;batting_positionmin1=3;batting_positionval1=batting_position;cl
ass=1;debut_or_last=1;filter=advanced;orderby=start;orderbyad=reverse;si
ze=200;team=1;template=results;type=batting;view=match

I see that Neil Williams actually did better than most. Only two England
batsmen making their debut at three seem to have scored a century in
their debut match: Peter May (no surprise) and that great character
George Gunn, who should perhaps have been selected for England more
often. ISTR that he never played in a home Test.

He did play one, at Lord's in 1909, but he might have wished he hadn't,
as he made 1 and 0, and Australia won.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-tour-of-england-1909-61356/england-vs-australia-2nd-test-62497/full-scorecard

You missed Ranji, who made 154* in his 2nd innings, following 62 in his 1st.

[John Hall]

Post by David North

Post by John Hall

Post by dnorth

Post by miked
BTW cricinfo say Mike Gatting was englands last no3 _on debut_ without a
FC 100, although when i looked, he batted at 5.

Yes he did.
I take it that they are not including nightwatchmen, as Neil Williams
batted at #3 in his only Test innings, and never made a FC 100.
Not many debutants bat at #3 - only 4 for England in the last 30 years,
including one nightwatchman, Rehan Ahmed (he had made a FC 100 already).
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positi
onmax1=3;batting_positionmin1=3;batting_positionval1=batting_position;cl
ass=1;debut_or_last=1;filter=advanced;orderby=start;orderbyad=reverse;si
ze=200;team=1;template=results;type=batting;view=match

I see that Neil Williams actually did better than most. Only two
England batsmen making their debut at three seem to have scored a
century in their debut match: Peter May (no surprise) and that great
character George Gunn, who should perhaps have been selected for
England more often. ISTR that he never played in a home Test.

He did play one, at Lord's in 1909, but he might have wished he hadn't,
as he made 1 and 0, and Australia won.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-tour-of-england-1909-61356
/england-vs-australia-2nd-test-62497/full-scorecard
You missed Ranji, who made 154* in his 2nd innings, following 62 in his 1st.

So I did. Thanks.

[miked]

Post by David North

Post by John Hall

Post by dnorth

Post by miked
BTW cricinfo say Mike Gatting was englands last no3 _on debut_ without a
FC 100, although when i looked, he batted at 5.

Yes he did.
I take it that they are not including nightwatchmen, as Neil Williams
batted at #3 in his only Test innings, and never made a FC 100.
Not many debutants bat at #3 - only 4 for England in the last 30 years,
including one nightwatchman, Rehan Ahmed (he had made a FC 100 already).
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positi
onmax1=3;batting_positionmin1=3;batting_positionval1=batting_position;cl
ass=1;debut_or_last=1;filter=advanced;orderby=start;orderbyad=reverse;si
ze=200;team=1;template=results;type=batting;view=match

I see that Neil Williams actually did better than most. Only two England
batsmen making their debut at three seem to have scored a century in
their debut match: Peter May (no surprise) and that great character
George Gunn, who should perhaps have been selected for England more
often. ISTR that he never played in a home Test.

He did play one, at Lord's in 1909, but he might have wished he hadn't,
as he made 1 and 0, and Australia won.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-tour-of-england-1909-61356/england-vs-australia-2nd-test-62497/full-scorecard
You missed Ranji, who made 154* in his 2nd innings, following 62 in his 1st.

if india hadnt been given test status, just think of all the great india
players who could have played for england, we might never have lost the
ashes, ever.

meanwhile back at hagley, very relieved we didnt have to bat first cos
we surely wouldnt have made many. 71-4 and bethel made 10 more than
crawley and root combined he can boast, then 6 catches went down, 4 off
brook, this time NZ let england off the hook, so pope was unlucky that
he fell to such a good catch. The NZ quicks Smith, Rorke and henry were
pretty impressive, they looked quicker than our lot.

mike

[John Hall]

Post by miked

Post by David North

Post by John Hall

Post by dnorth

Post by miked
BTW cricinfo say Mike Gatting was englands last no3 _on debut_ without a
FC 100, although when i looked, he batted at 5.

Yes he did.
I take it that they are not including nightwatchmen, as Neil Williams
batted at #3 in his only Test innings, and never made a FC 100.
Not many debutants bat at #3 - only 4 for England in the last 30 years,
including one nightwatchman, Rehan Ahmed (he had made a FC 100 already).
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positi
onmax1=3;batting_positionmin1=3;batting_positionval1=batting_position;cl
ass=1;debut_or_last=1;filter=advanced;orderby=start;orderbyad=reverse;si
ze=200;team=1;template=results;type=batting;view=match

I see that Neil Williams actually did better than most. Only two England
batsmen making their debut at three seem to have scored a century in
their debut match: Peter May (no surprise) and that great character
George Gunn, who should perhaps have been selected for England more
often. ISTR that he never played in a home Test.

He did play one, at Lord's in 1909, but he might have wished he hadn't,
as he made 1 and 0, and Australia won.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-tour-of-england-1909-6135
6/england-vs-australia-2nd-test-62497/full-scorecard
You missed Ranji, who made 154* in his 2nd innings, following 62 in his 1st.

if india hadnt been given test status, just think of all the great india
players who could have played for england, we might never have lost the
ashes, ever.

But some of those Indian players might have played for Australia. :)

Turning it about, if India had had Test status just a few years earlier,
then Duleepsinjhi and the Nawab of Pataudi senior might never have
played for England. (They would have had to be given Test status 40
years earlier for Ranji not to have done so.)

Post by miked
meanwhile back at hagley, very relieved we didnt have to bat first cos
we surely wouldnt have made many.

Though in the morning session apparently it was cloudy and not sunny as
on day 1, which may have helped the bowlers.

Post by miked
71-4 and bethel made 10 more than
crawley and root combined he can boast,

Apparently he looked pretty good.

Post by miked
then 6 catches went down, 4 off
brook, this time NZ let england off the hook, so pope was unlucky that
he fell to such a good catch. The NZ quicks Smith, Rorke and henry were
pretty impressive, they looked quicker than our lot.
mike

Not having seen any footage, I can't comment on that.

[John Hall]

<snip>

Post by John Hall

Post by miked
meanwhile back at hagley, very relieved we didnt have to bat first cos
we surely wouldnt have made many.

Though in the morning session apparently it was cloudy and not sunny as
on day 1, which may have helped the bowlers.

Post by miked
71-4 and bethel made 10 more than
crawley and root combined he can boast,

Apparently he looked pretty good.

Post by miked
then 6 catches went down, 4 off
brook, this time NZ let england off the hook, so pope was unlucky that
he fell to such a good catch. The NZ quicks Smith, Rorke and henry were
pretty impressive, they looked quicker than our lot.
mike

Not having seen any footage, I can't comment on that.

And day 3 was an excellent day for England. Hopefully they will polish
things off tomorrow though, with NZ's tail well capable of wagging,
that's not guaranteed. Carse continues to impress and, for once
overseas, Woakes came to the party too.

[John Hall]

Post by John Hall
And day 3 was an excellent day for England. Hopefully they will polish
things off tomorrow though, with NZ's tail well capable of wagging,
that's not guaranteed. Carse continues to impress and, for once
overseas, Woakes came to the party too.

Duly polished off. Taking recent results at face value, you could argue
that England > NZ > India > England. :)

[miked]

Post by John Hall

Post by John Hall
And day 3 was an excellent day for England. Hopefully they will polish
things off tomorrow though, with NZ's tail well capable of wagging,
that's not guaranteed. Carse continues to impress and, for once
overseas, Woakes came to the party too.

Duly polished off. Taking recent results at face value, you could argue
that England > NZ > India > England. :)

well england did lose 2-1 to pakistan in between, plus its just the 1st
test and i cant believe NZ will play as badly again, becos you dont win
the WTC and beat india 3-0 in india as a fluke. I wouldnt be surprised
if we lost this series 2-1 as well, when NZ wake up or start catching
not dropping.

Plenty of good things though for engalnd in this match, but the usual
odd period of play when stokes opened the bowling without any slips, the
bazball barrage yielded only runs to NZ, then stokes pulled up, and they
started bowling more sensibly. He says he will be fit for welly, but he
cant really be relied apon as a frontline bowler anymore.

England will also be cockahoop at Bethels 1st test 50 proving the
doubters wrong, so I wonder if he will stay at 3 for the next test with
pope remaining as keeper at 6. but crawleys form against NZ remains
abysmal, average 10 from 9 matches.

mike

[miked]

I forgot to mention Carse 10fer and that they said the last england
seamer to take 10 abroad was sidebottom also in NZ. So neither anderson
or borad managed this? lets hope he can stay fit for the entire series,
takes some of the pressure off atkinson.

mike

[John Hall]

Post by miked
I forgot to mention Carse 10fer and that they said the last england
seamer to take 10 abroad was sidebottom also in NZ. So neither anderson
or borad managed this?

It seems not.

Post by miked
lets hope he can stay fit for the entire series,
takes some of the pressure off atkinson.
mike

Recent months have been very encouraging for the future of England's
seam attack, with first Atkinson and then Carse arriving on the scene.
If - and of course it's a big if - everyone is fit in 12 months time,
then we could be taking Atkinson, Carse, Wood, Archer, Potts and maybe
one of Tongue, Stone and Saqib Mahmood to Australia.

[David North]

Post by John Hall

Post by miked
I forgot to mention Carse 10fer and that they said the last england
seamer to take 10 abroad was sidebottom also in NZ. So neither anderson
or borad managed this?

It seems not.

Their best was 8 (Broad 3 times, Anderson once). Wood has taken 9 twice.

[John Hall]

Post by miked
England will also be cockahoop at Bethels 1st test 50 proving the
doubters wrong, so I wonder if he will stay at 3 for the next test with
pope remaining as keeper at 6.

It seems likely. The alternative would be to restore Pope to 3 and
select Robinson as keeper, but that would be tough on Bethell.

Post by miked
but crawleys form against NZ remains
abysmal, average 10 from 9 matches.

He's certainly having a bad run ATM.

[David North]

Post by John Hall

Post by miked

Post by miked
The usual silly beer match before the test series saw England dismiss
the kiwi welcome XI for 136, then did they use the rest of the day for
batting practice, no just the usual bazball jolly 249 all out off 45
overs, with cox making only 11.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-in-new-zealand-2024-25-1428
550/new-zealand-prime-minister-s-xi-vs-england-practice-match-1461163/f
ull-scorecard
mike

Cox out with a broken thumb,

Rotten luck for him.

Post by miked
so Pope will probably keep again,

Yes, though I understand England are thinking of flying out another
keeper in time for Tests 2 and 3

It would have made more sense to have a spare keeper instead of one of
the spinners in the first place.

[John Hall]

Post by David North

Post by John Hall

Post by miked

Post by miked
The usual silly beer match before the test series saw England dismiss
the kiwi welcome XI for 136, then did they use the rest of the day for
batting practice, no just the usual bazball jolly 249 all out off 45
overs, with cox making only 11.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-in-new-zealand-2024-25-1428
550/new-zealand-prime-minister-s-xi-vs-england-practice-match-1461163/f
ull-scorecard
mike

Cox out with a broken thumb,

Rotten luck for him.

Post by miked
so Pope will probably keep again,

Yes, though I understand England are thinking of flying out another
keeper in time for Tests 2 and 3

It would have made more sense to have a spare keeper instead of one of
the spinners in the first place.

Rather ironic that Cox didn't break his thumb when keeping, which
wouldn't have been a great surprise, but when batting in the nets.