Discussion:
T20 World Cup - India vs Ireland
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FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
2024-06-05 15:42:40 UTC
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T20 World Cup - India vs Ireland

The drop in pitch prepared by Adelaide for New York Nassau stadium is
NOT GOOD ENOUGH for a T20 world cup game.

SA vs Sri Lanka was also too bowler friendly and now India vs Ireland is
following suit.

Paying fans won't get their money's worth and also a bad advertisement
for cricket especially in America.

ICC spent $30 million on this Nassau New York stadium.




https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/sa-v-sl-t20-world-cup-2024-new-york-s-world-cup-debut-leaves-questions-to-answer-1436648

Please don't take this as talking down to the stereotype of an American
sports fan. This is as much for a regular cricket fan as it is for the
newest cricketing outpost who might be wondering what this sport is all
about. There are questions after the first-ever World Cup match in New
York that need answering.

Were we not entertained?
Even for a traditional cricket fan, this match was a bit of a hard-sell.
A diehard fan might have found some excitement during some tight overs
when South Africa were chasing 78, but otherwise it was just too loaded
in favour of the bowlers. There was just too much bounce, and
unpredictable bounce, which made six-hitting next to impossible. It was
going both up and down, left and right. And it was happening not in the
air but after the ball bounced, which gives batters very little time to
adjust. They can defend their wicket but can't possibly score quickly.

Why was the pitch so difficult? Surely they didn't do it on purpose?
It is hard to say. These drop-in pitches were prepared by an experienced
groundsman from Adelaide who knows the assignment. Perhaps they haven't
had enough time to settle down with enough cricket played on them. There
are four pitches at the Nassau County International Cricket Stadium, and
six for the nets at Cantiague Park. They were all prepared at the same
time. India have done the most training at Cantiague Park, and they have
seen them behave better day by day. Perhaps these will too.

Or perhaps the curator is leaving extra grass because the square of four
pitches has to host eight matches in 10 days. He obviously doesn't want
them to die down by the time the New York leg is nearing its end.

But aren't these expert batters? Why couldn't they adjust and score at
least a run a ball through grounded shots?
The outfield wasn't great. There were quite a few shots that would have
fetched fours in standard conditions, but this is a heavy sandy
outfield. Even aerial shots that clear the infield were bouncing in it
and plugging.

Can anything be done about the outfield? Perhaps shave some of the grass?
That could make it dangerous for the fielders. Already they are not too
keen on diving. Perhaps they could consider bringing the boundaries in.

Hang on, why do we want standard conditions?
Because T20 is the shortest format of cricket. It is the vehicle to take
it to newer outposts. There is just not enough time to adjust to such
variable conditions. It creates competitive imbalance, giving the
bowling side a huge advantage. As you saw, the side batting first didn't
have the time to realise 120 was a good score and kept losing wickets
trying to aim for a bigger total.

Especially in tournament play, cricket always aims for standard
conditions because you want the players to shine and not the conditions.
In the ODI World Cup in India last year, the governing body kept rating
pitches "average" whenever they deviated a bit from the norm.

But didn't Sri Lanka win the toss? Why did they choose to bat first?
They possibly didn't know what to expect from these pitches.

And why is that?
They only just arrived two days ago after spending their entire night in
the Miami airport because of a flight delay. Then the actual facility
doesn't have practice pitches. Looking at how they would be practising
elsewhere, they chose to rest rather than make the trek all the way from
downtown Brooklyn to Long Island. Even on match day they woke up at
5.30am to make it in time. They were practically sleepwalking.

Why are they staying so far?
The other hotels in the vicinity are fully booked by the other teams who
are here for longer.

That sounds like a nightmare. Why go through all this to come to New
York when you can't get a cricket field in the city where there are
enough hotels to house all the teams?
New York is arguably the best city in the world. Like any business,
cricket wants to expand. It is aiming for the richest consumers of sport.

Then why play at 10.30am on a Monday?
In the biggest existing market for cricket, India, it was 8pm on a
Monday. That's primetime. You can't completely ignore the existing
audience in order to make an outreach to a newer one.

Were they entertained at least?
Going by the texts I received, no. They are generally traditionalists so
most of them were laughing laughs of vindication. It was the loudest I
told you so.

I can understand they must be feeling like that girl in the meme where
the boy is walking with her but looking at someone else.
That's not a question but I will grant you this one. It is quite accurate.

So is this a total disaster?
No, there is a cheat code. India vs Pakistan, arch rivals with a shared
bloodied history. It has already sold out two stadiums in and around New
York. It will rescue everything.

Did it really need a World Cup for that particular game to be sold out?
Because from what I understand it is a completely inconsequential match,
which tells me these two teams can sell out anything.
Yes, it is inconsequential unless at least a couple of big upsets take
place in other matches in this group. It is also correct that you don't
even get easier opponents in the next rounds if you win this match.

But no, those two teams can't play each other outside multi-nation
events because of the politics between the two countries. Between you
and me, the governing body even rigs the draw to make sure they play
each other at least once.

Hmm. But it's not like the 1800s when Canada and USA played
international cricket for the first time. The conditions needn't have
been such an unknown. Surely if the expat fans are selling out two
stadiums, they must be wanting to play too? If they had stadiums here,
you wouldn't need to bring in untested pitches from Australia.
Yeah, but you can't blame the ICC for that. Developing grounds and
pitches is the job of the national board.

Why didn't they do it then?
USA Cricket? Now that's a whole can of worms even the ICC opens with a
visor and gloves on.

How much did they spend on this makeshift stadium again?
Well, that really is the $30 million question.
David North
2024-06-06 03:55:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
In the ODI World Cup in India last year, the governing body kept rating
pitches "average" whenever they deviated a bit from the norm.
If "average" is not the norm, what is it the average of? And what was
the average rating?
--
David North
FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
2024-06-06 05:50:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by David North
Post by FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
In the ODI World Cup in India last year, the governing body kept
rating pitches "average" whenever they deviated a bit from the norm.
If "average" is not the norm, what is it the average of? And what was
the average rating?
The columnist's bone of contention is that the ICC is NOT using the same
standards to this Nassau County New York pitch what they applied to
pitches in the ODI World Cup in India last year.

ICC should have RATED this pitch POOR is what the columnist saying.
David North
2024-06-06 07:14:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
Post by David North
Post by FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
In the ODI World Cup in India last year, the governing body kept
rating pitches "average" whenever they deviated a bit from the norm.
If "average" is not the norm, what is it the average of? And what was
the average rating?
The columnist's bone of contention is that the ICC is NOT using the same
standards to this Nassau County New York pitch what they applied to
pitches in the ODI World Cup in India last year.
ICC should have RATED this pitch POOR is what the columnist saying.
If so, why didn't he just say that? He didn't even mention how the ICC
actually rated that pitch. Did he even know?
--
David North
FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
2024-06-06 17:10:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by David North
Post by FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
Post by David North
Post by FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
In the ODI World Cup in India last year, the governing body kept
rating pitches "average" whenever they deviated a bit from the norm.
If "average" is not the norm, what is it the average of? And what was
the average rating?
The columnist's bone of contention is that the ICC is NOT using the
same standards to this Nassau County New York pitch what they applied
to pitches in the ODI World Cup in India last year.
ICC should have RATED this pitch POOR is what the columnist saying.
If so, why didn't he just say that?
It's implied.
Post by David North
He didn't even mention how the ICC
actually rated that pitch. Did he even know?
FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
2024-06-06 06:09:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by David North
Post by FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
In the ODI World Cup in India last year, the governing body kept
rating pitches "average" whenever they deviated a bit from the norm.
If "average" is not the norm, what is it the average of? And what was
the average rating?
Undercooked pitch could undermine India-Pakistan spectacle

There is excessive seam movement and bounce, batters are getting hit by
the ball, and conditions have been anything but standard

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/t20-world-cup-2024-will-india-vs-pakistan-also-see-an-undercooked-new-york-pitch-1436980

If these matches were being played in an established stadium, it would
be close to getting serious sanctions from the ICC.

Excessive seam movement and bounce, which is also excessively variable,
have left a massive cloud hanging over the weekend. The ICC rightly
prefers standard conditions in limited-overs World Cups. It goes further
than the simplistic preference for big hits. Standard conditions allow
for execution of most skills that make for an even contest.

Andy Flower is not exaggerating when he says the pitches are bordering
on dangerous. Harry Tector, Rohit Sharma and Rishabh Pant were all hit
by the ball because it bounced in a way you don't expect it to.

Even if there had been great weather in New York and the pitches had
been ready, it is unlikely the ICC had budgeted for the bedding-in
period. It has been given permission to play only nine matches on it,
including the warm-up game. So how did the ICC expect to bed the pitches
in even if they had been prepared properly?

The stadium was handed over to the ICC practically a day before the
India vs Bangladesh warm-up match. India had sent half their side early
to the US to prepare properly for the tournament, but forget training at
the ground, when captain Rohit Sharma and coach Rahul Dravid tried to
take a look at the ground and the pitch, they were turned away because
the ground had not yet been handed over. Getting the stadium ready in
three months for your biggest match of the year is not the flex the ICC
thinks it is.

Not much can be done now. India showed their bowling prowess on this
pitch, and Pakistan only bring quicker bowlers with higher release
points, making it an even bigger challenge for batters. They have tried
pitches No. 1 and 4 already. The six pitches at the practice facility at
Cantiague Park some 20 minutes from the ground were grown at the same
time, and have been just as spicy. So spicy that South Africa's batters
refused to bat there against Anrich Nortje and Kagiso Rabada. Local net
bowlers have frequently hit batters because of seam movement and
David North
2024-06-06 05:09:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/sa-v-sl-t20-world-cup-2024-new-york-s-world-cup-debut-leaves-questions-to-answer-1436648
There was just too much bounce, and
unpredictable bounce, which made six-hitting next to impossible.
... and yet six sixes were hit in 214 balls faced.

There have been 1953 T20Is in which at least 214 balls were faced, and
six sixes or fewer have been hit in 571 of those.

In the PNG/Uganda match yesterday at Providence, Guyana, only one six
was hit in 226 balls.

Hitting sixes should be difficult. Why award six runs for something
that's easy?
--
David North
FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
2024-06-06 05:38:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by David North
Post by FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/sa-v-sl-t20-world-cup-2024-new-york-s-world-cup-debut-leaves-questions-to-answer-1436648
There was just too much bounce, and unpredictable bounce, which made
six-hitting next to impossible.
... and yet six sixes were hit in 214 balls faced.
You are being too picky.

Look at the big picture.

Is the pitch bad or not.
Post by David North
There have been 1953 T20Is in which at least 214 balls were faced, and
six sixes or fewer have been hit in 571 of those.
That's because T20 batting EVOLVED over time and six hitting frequency
INCREASED in the last couple of years.
Post by David North
In the PNG/Uganda match yesterday at Providence, Guyana, only one six
was hit in 226 balls.
Two NOVICES in cricket.
Post by David North
Hitting sixes should be difficult. Why award six runs for something
that's easy?
Six hitting is difficult. You are picking on ONE LINE of the column.

We are talking about the BAD PITCH prepared by Adelaide curators which
is NOT SUITABLE for T20 World Cup matches.

There is NOTHING wrong in preparing a pitch helpful to bowlers but this
pitch is really substandard.
David North
2024-06-06 06:02:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
Post by David North
Post by FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/sa-v-sl-t20-world-cup-2024-new-york-s-world-cup-debut-leaves-questions-to-answer-1436648
There was just too much bounce, and unpredictable bounce, which made
six-hitting next to impossible.
... and yet six sixes were hit in 214 balls faced.
You are being too picky.
Look at the big picture.
Is the pitch bad or not.
Post by David North
There have been 1953 T20Is in which at least 214 balls were faced, and
six sixes or fewer have been hit in 571 of those.
That's because T20 batting EVOLVED over time and six hitting frequency
INCREASED in the last couple of years.
No it isn't. In the last two years, there have been 760 T20Is in which
at least 214 balls were faced, and six sixes or fewer have been hit in
222 of those. That's 29.2% of the total, compared to, guess what, 29.2%
from the figures I gave previously.
Post by FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
Post by David North
In the PNG/Uganda match yesterday at Providence, Guyana, only one six
was hit in 226 balls.
Two NOVICES in cricket.
Post by David North
Hitting sixes should be difficult. Why award six runs for something
that's easy?
Six hitting is difficult. You are picking on ONE LINE of the column.
We are talking about the BAD PITCH prepared by Adelaide curators which
is NOT SUITABLE for T20 World Cup matches.
There is NOTHING wrong in preparing a pitch helpful to bowlers but this
pitch is really substandard.
I an not disputing that. I am just putting one of the writer's
(apparently exaggerated) claims into context.
--
David North
FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
2024-06-06 06:12:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by David North
Post by FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
Post by David North
Post by FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/sa-v-sl-t20-world-cup-2024-new-york-s-world-cup-debut-leaves-questions-to-answer-1436648
There was just too much bounce, and unpredictable bounce, which made
six-hitting next to impossible.
... and yet six sixes were hit in 214 balls faced.
You are being too picky.
Look at the big picture.
Is the pitch bad or not.
Post by David North
There have been 1953 T20Is in which at least 214 balls were faced,
and six sixes or fewer have been hit in 571 of those.
That's because T20 batting EVOLVED over time and six hitting frequency
INCREASED in the last couple of years.
No it isn't. In the last two years, there have been 760 T20Is in which
at least 214 balls were faced, and six sixes or fewer have been hit in
222 of those. That's 29.2% of the total, compared to, guess what, 29.2%
from the figures I gave previously.
Post by FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
Post by David North
In the PNG/Uganda match yesterday at Providence, Guyana, only one six
was hit in 226 balls.
Two NOVICES in cricket.
Post by David North
Hitting sixes should be difficult. Why award six runs for something
that's easy?
Six hitting is difficult. You are picking on ONE LINE of the column.
We are talking about the BAD PITCH prepared by Adelaide curators which
is NOT SUITABLE for T20 World Cup matches.
There is NOTHING wrong in preparing a pitch helpful to bowlers but
this pitch is really substandard.
I an not disputing that. I am just putting one of the writer's
(apparently exaggerated) claims into context.
Columnist got everything right about the poor pitch EXCEPT this one
point about six hitting.
max.it
2024-06-06 06:00:44 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 6 Jun 2024 06:09:25 +0100, David North
Post by David North
Post by FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/sa-v-sl-t20-world-cup-2024-new-york-s-world-cup-debut-leaves-questions-to-answer-1436648
There was just too much bounce, and
unpredictable bounce, which made six-hitting next to impossible.
... and yet six sixes were hit in 214 balls faced.
There have been 1953 T20Is in which at least 214 balls were faced, and
six sixes or fewer have been hit in 571 of those.
In the PNG/Uganda match yesterday at Providence, Guyana, only one six
was hit in 226 balls.
Hitting sixes should be difficult. Why award six runs for something
that's easy?
I can't imagine easy singles and casual twos thrilling the USA
spectators.

max.it
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FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
2024-06-06 06:18:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by max.it
On Thu, 6 Jun 2024 06:09:25 +0100, David North
Post by David North
Post by FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/sa-v-sl-t20-world-cup-2024-new-york-s-world-cup-debut-leaves-questions-to-answer-1436648
There was just too much bounce, and
unpredictable bounce, which made six-hitting next to impossible.
... and yet six sixes were hit in 214 balls faced.
There have been 1953 T20Is in which at least 214 balls were faced, and
six sixes or fewer have been hit in 571 of those.
In the PNG/Uganda match yesterday at Providence, Guyana, only one six
was hit in 226 balls.
Hitting sixes should be difficult. Why award six runs for something
that's easy?
I can't imagine easy singles and casual twos thrilling the USA
spectators.
max.it
They wouldn't thrill even regular cricket fans like us in T20 games.

You DIDN'T ENJOY the India vs Ireland game because of the poor pitch,
did you?

The pitch was also physically DANGEROUS for batsmen.
max.it
2024-06-06 22:28:12 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 5 Jun 2024 23:18:06 -0700, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
Post by FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
Post by max.it
On Thu, 6 Jun 2024 06:09:25 +0100, David North
Post by David North
Post by FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/sa-v-sl-t20-world-cup-2024-new-york-s-world-cup-debut-leaves-questions-to-answer-1436648
There was just too much bounce, and
unpredictable bounce, which made six-hitting next to impossible.
... and yet six sixes were hit in 214 balls faced.
There have been 1953 T20Is in which at least 214 balls were faced, and
six sixes or fewer have been hit in 571 of those.
In the PNG/Uganda match yesterday at Providence, Guyana, only one six
was hit in 226 balls.
Hitting sixes should be difficult. Why award six runs for something
that's easy?
I can't imagine easy singles and casual twos thrilling the USA
spectators.
max.it
They wouldn't thrill even regular cricket fans like us in T20 games.
You DIDN'T ENJOY the India vs Ireland game because of the poor pitch,
did you?
The pitch was also physically DANGEROUS for batsmen.
I just saw some clips. Some of the deliveries were unpredictable, very
sharp bounce from a good length.
Rohit would have been happy enough with his choice to bowl.

max.it
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dnorth
2024-06-06 12:29:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by max.it
On Thu, 6 Jun 2024 06:09:25 +0100, David North
Post by David North
Post by FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/sa-v-sl-t20-world-cup-2024-new-york-s-world-cup-debut-leaves-questions-to-answer-1436648
There was just too much bounce, and
unpredictable bounce, which made six-hitting next to impossible.
... and yet six sixes were hit in 214 balls faced.
There have been 1953 T20Is in which at least 214 balls were faced, and
six sixes or fewer have been hit in 571 of those.
In the PNG/Uganda match yesterday at Providence, Guyana, only one six
was hit in 226 balls.
Hitting sixes should be difficult. Why award six runs for something
that's easy?
I can't imagine easy singles and casual twos thrilling the USA
spectators.
Would those be the USA spectators who like baseball, which, from what
little I've seen of it, seems to involve mostly swinging and missing or
leaving?
FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
2024-06-06 17:14:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by dnorth
Post by max.it
On Thu, 6 Jun 2024 06:09:25 +0100, David North
Post by David North
Post by FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/sa-v-sl-t20-world-cup-2024-new-york-s-world-cup-debut-leaves-questions-to-answer-1436648
There was just too much bounce, and unpredictable bounce, which made
six-hitting next to impossible.
... and yet six sixes were hit in 214 balls faced.
There have been 1953 T20Is in which at least 214 balls were faced,
and six sixes or fewer have been hit in 571 of those.
In the PNG/Uganda match yesterday at Providence, Guyana, only one six
was hit in 226 balls.
Hitting sixes should be difficult. Why award six runs for something
that's easy?
I can't imagine easy singles and casual twos thrilling the USA
spectators.
Would those be the USA spectators who like baseball, which, from what
little I've seen of it, seems to involve mostly swinging and missing or
leaving?
95%+ USA spectators are expats from WI, India, Pak, England, Sri Lanka,
Bangladesh anyway.

I myself watched the 1992 World Cup finals in a Florida bar with England
and Paki fans.

Obviously I rooted for England against the Pakis.
max.it
2024-06-06 20:10:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by dnorth
Post by max.it
On Thu, 6 Jun 2024 06:09:25 +0100, David North
Post by David North
Post by FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/sa-v-sl-t20-world-cup-2024-new-york-s-world-cup-debut-leaves-questions-to-answer-1436648
There was just too much bounce, and
unpredictable bounce, which made six-hitting next to impossible.
... and yet six sixes were hit in 214 balls faced.
There have been 1953 T20Is in which at least 214 balls were faced, and
six sixes or fewer have been hit in 571 of those.
In the PNG/Uganda match yesterday at Providence, Guyana, only one six
was hit in 226 balls.
Hitting sixes should be difficult. Why award six runs for something
that's easy?
I can't imagine easy singles and casual twos thrilling the USA
spectators.
Would those be the USA spectators who like baseball, which, from what
little I've seen of it, seems to involve mostly swinging and missing or
leaving?
Yup, they've been swinging missing and leaving since little league.
The one's who get to pro don't miss too many.

max.it
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